StrategyTalk.org

[parvati_roma]

[parvati_roma]

Ah... seeing as how the Mario-did-it version has already produced such loud and very aggrieved screeches both publicly from "our Mario" himself and from Forza Italia's Senator Guzzanti, plus - I assume - even louder ones behind closed doors from the boys over at SISMI, long-time M16 double agent Oleg Gordievski(*) has now jumped into the breach with a brand-new mysterious trail for us to follow, this time featuring a nameless Russian - whose identity Gordievski declares he "doesn't know" while nonetheless providing a quick rundown of the purported poisoner's life-story and bank-balance :

[FC Mellon]

I always enjoy 'a good spaghetti story' because even when one knows/thinks 'each thread has a dead-end'....there is 'always another strand lying nearby' which takes ones to new locations. My question is how...and I guess also why is Mario still walking around so openly flaunting his bloated gut when he appears to consume nothing along his way(s).
p.s. Where is the newsprinted fish in this story...or is this 'the sequeal' to come soon in a movie theater just down the street which grabs everyone's attention...hook, lying and sinker?
p.p.s.s. ...oh yea, I forgot...this is 'just another one of those stories' to keep our attention from the 'real plot about to be dug'.

[Cheryl]

Interesting collection of information, Parvati. How is it that the Italians always seem to get in on the intrigue? First Michael Ledeen and the forged "Nigerien" letters, now this.

Seems like Italy is still playing a Cold War intermediary role.

I'd like to spend some more time on it, but not today. Maybe tomorrow.

[Pavel]

[parvati_roma]

Hi pavel - welcome!! - and thanks for the info.

One big question for me over the "poisonings"-thingies in general is why should any national secret service, and in particular, that of a large and militarily-scientifically advanced nation such as Russia (which could if so inclined presumably draw on highly-efficient personnel and methods if it should decide that certain adversaries are becoming a serious threat to vital national and/or internal-political interests) use such picturesque but extremely/suspiciously inefficient, blatant and adverse-publicity-generating "hit methods"?????

Writing from Italy but with a beady eye also to UK and US goings-on both at home and abroad, the classic secret-service hit-methods seem to be far more discrete and effective - the commonest being of course faked car-accidents, faked suicides and mysterious "disappearances"... all quick and simple enough to execute, I'd say if carefully prepared they'd take no more than a 4-man hit-team plus a small logistics support-team?

So why on earth - if it really felt it necessary to get rid of Berezovski-gang hangers-on and/or US-loving Ukrainian politicos - should Russia have developed such a strangely picturesque fancy for press-spectacularisable Conan-Doyle-style weirdities instead of using far simpler, tried and true, standard-issue "covert-op" hit-techniques??

[Cheryl]

I've been wondering the same thing, Parvati.

Thallium, apparently what was used in this case, can be detected in blood and body fluids, just like the dioxin in Viktor Yushchenko's.

One report I read said that Litvinenko vomited soon after his deadly lunch, which probably saved his life by getting some of the poison out of his body.

So it's both easily detectable and, as you pointed out, fallible.

The detectable part may be considered desirable, as it's a warning to others.

The fallible part, not so much.

[parvati_roma]

Hi and welcome back , Cheryl!

[Pavel]

The only reason for Russian security services to do it, is to use it as a public warning, since Litvinenko could hardly pose any threat to national interests anymore. That's why highly effective substances was not used - there was no intention to kill, just to harm seriously. But timing? Why now? Don't no. No sense.

There is a wide range of other possibilities, including his new business partners, provocation of Western security services and so on. But all this is conspiracy theory, since we will never know the truth.

[parvati_roma]

[Cheryl]

And now there's speculation it was radioactive thallium.

That would be easy enough to check out: some of the thallium must still be in Litvinenko's body, so a geiger counter would be able to tell.

But that's icing on the cake: the real question is Pavel's and Parvati's: why now?

Litvinenko was looking into the killing of Anna Politkovskaya, and he's been a critic of the Kremlin for some time. This latest might just have been the last straw.

And it's possible that agencies within the Russian government are no better coordinated than those within other governments (Italian, American...), so that a plan long in the making finally found an opportunity.

As for the Mitrokhin connection, so many conspiracies, so little time! I see he's got another book out, and I haven't even gotten to his first, which sits on my "to read" shelf...

[Maxwell]

Well somehow, someway it will be attributed to GWB. Maybe as a favor to Putin to get on board for Iran action.

[parvati_roma]

Nah - can rule out any direct US covert-stuff. US shoots, kidnaps, "suicides" or bombs ... No record of it using complicated "fancy-nancy" stuff like exotic, one-person-at-a-time, less-than-lethal poisons.

[Cheryl]

[fred]